[00:00:00 - 00:00:02] [music] [00:00:02 - 00:00:12] >> Nancy Nangeroni I'm Nancy Nangeroni, and this is Gender [00:00:12 - 00:00:17] Talk. [00:00:17 - 00:00:21] [music] [00:00:21 - 00:00:31] >> Hello again, this is Gender Talk, Boston's worldwide radio show that talks about transgenderism [00:00:31 - 00:00:33] in the first person. [00:00:33 - 00:00:37] Each week we bring you news, information, and exciting new voices that challenge our [00:00:37 - 00:00:39] traditional view of gender. [00:00:39 - 00:00:43] Tonight we'll meet a different flavor of activist, a representative of the United American Indians [00:00:43 - 00:00:44] of New England. [00:00:44 - 00:00:49] We'll hear about a protest turned violent last Thanksgiving in Plymouth, and why this [00:00:49 - 00:00:54] group of original Americans refers to that national holiday as a day of shame. [00:00:54 - 00:00:58] Then we'll meet the well-known author of several books on the subject of natural hallucinogens [00:00:58 - 00:01:01] and altered states of consciousness, Terrence McKenna. [00:01:01 - 00:01:06] We'll ask about benefits, drawbacks, and safety issues in exploring altered states. [00:01:06 - 00:01:09] Plus we'll check in with celebrity friend, Candy Kane, who will fill us in on the summer [00:01:09 - 00:01:11] scene in Provincetown. [00:01:11 - 00:01:15] And because this is a surprisingly decent show, we'll also have the twisted nasty news [00:01:15 - 00:01:19] happenings around town and much more tonight on Gender Talk. [00:01:19 - 00:01:23] >> And the views and opinions presented on this program do not necessarily reflect those [00:01:23 - 00:01:27] of the staff and management of WNBR, the technology broadcasting corporation RMIT. [00:01:27 - 00:01:28] >> Wow. [00:01:28 - 00:01:31] Hal, thank you so much for that. [00:01:31 - 00:01:34] >> Remind me not to do that one again. [00:01:34 - 00:01:37] >> You know, I think we should thank the show before us. [00:01:37 - 00:01:41] >> I think we should have the guys on radio with a view, I think they should do Gender [00:01:41 - 00:01:42] Talk. [00:01:42 - 00:01:44] I mean, they've got much better clips than we. [00:01:44 - 00:01:45] >> Really? [00:01:45 - 00:01:47] Thanks, guys. [00:01:47 - 00:01:48] Mark and David. [00:01:48 - 00:01:49] >> Mark and David are those guys. [00:01:49 - 00:01:50] >> Yes. [00:01:50 - 00:01:51] >> All right. [00:01:51 - 00:01:52] >> That was a nice little intro. [00:01:52 - 00:01:53] Anyway, this is Gender Talk. [00:01:53 - 00:01:54] Our website is www.GenderTalk.com. [00:01:54 - 00:01:55] >> Surprisingly decent. [00:01:55 - 00:01:59] >> I think it's surprisingly decent considering how little effort we put into it. [00:01:59 - 00:02:01] >> The leftist radio show on the dial. [00:02:01 - 00:02:02] >> It is that. [00:02:02 - 00:02:04] Yeah, we do put a little bit of effort into it. [00:02:04 - 00:02:06] And we have fun and we hope you have fun with it, too. [00:02:06 - 00:02:07] >> And you can email us. [00:02:07 - 00:02:10] >> Mr. Clean gets rid of dirt and grime. [00:02:10 - 00:02:15] >> Nancy at GenderTalk.com or Hal at GenderTalk.com or anybody else at GenderTalk.com. [00:02:15 - 00:02:17] Our side host is TG Forum, Transgender Forum. [00:02:17 - 00:02:18] Thanks, guys. [00:02:18 - 00:02:21] We appreciate you putting us out there on the web for everybody to hear. [00:02:21 - 00:02:22] Hey, you know what happened? [00:02:22 - 00:02:23] >> What happened? [00:02:23 - 00:02:26] >> I just got yesterday in the mail from Jamie Fae Fenton, the person who puts our show up [00:02:26 - 00:02:27] on the website. [00:02:27 - 00:02:28] >> Right. [00:02:28 - 00:02:32] >> Jamie made me a CD, CD-ROM, with all of our shows on it. [00:02:32 - 00:02:33] One CD-ROM. [00:02:33 - 00:02:34] >> One CD? [00:02:34 - 00:02:35] >> You're kidding. [00:02:35 - 00:02:36] >> With over a year's worth. [00:02:36 - 00:02:37] It's almost a year and a half. [00:02:37 - 00:02:38] It's I don't know how many shows it was. [00:02:38 - 00:02:39] >> So are we going to start selling this? [00:02:39 - 00:02:40] Is it going to be something that's price? [00:02:40 - 00:02:41] >> It was like 72 shows or something. [00:02:41 - 00:02:42] >> Are we going to sell this? [00:02:42 - 00:02:43] Is it going to be something that's price? [00:02:43 - 00:02:46] >> Well, that's the idea is that maybe IFGE can sell this. [00:02:46 - 00:02:49] So maybe IFGE will make this available to people. [00:02:49 - 00:02:50] We'll see. [00:02:50 - 00:02:52] >> More GenderTalk than you could possibly want, folks. [00:02:52 - 00:02:53] >> That's right. [00:02:53 - 00:02:54] More than you ever want. [00:02:54 - 00:02:56] Enough to totally cure you of the listening habit. [00:02:56 - 00:02:58] >> You mean people can do sampling on us now? [00:02:58 - 00:03:04] >> Well, it's in real audio format, so it's not quite as good as real audio. [00:03:04 - 00:03:07] >> Did we get mail this week? [00:03:07 - 00:03:08] >> Oh, yeah. [00:03:08 - 00:03:09] That's what we have. [00:03:09 - 00:03:10] I knew there was something I needed to do here. [00:03:10 - 00:03:11] Where? [00:03:11 - 00:03:12] All right. [00:03:12 - 00:03:13] First piece of mail. [00:03:13 - 00:03:14] This one's good. [00:03:14 - 00:03:15] I'm going to read this verbatim. [00:03:15 - 00:03:18] Dear Nancy, I was on GenderTalk about a year ago discussing my treatment at the hands of [00:03:18 - 00:03:21] some very inept therapists in Oklahoma. [00:03:21 - 00:03:26] I can't tell you how important that was in my efforts to legitimize my feelings to myself. [00:03:26 - 00:03:28] I think she's referring to being on the radio show. [00:03:28 - 00:03:31] I had a few phone calls in the months following the show from people who were very supportive [00:03:31 - 00:03:32] of my efforts. [00:03:32 - 00:03:36] With that and a few more months of therapy with Roger Millen, of course, I began my real [00:03:36 - 00:03:38] life training in September. [00:03:38 - 00:03:41] My real life test, excuse me, in November of last year. [00:03:41 - 00:03:43] That means real life test is like when you cross live, right? [00:03:43 - 00:03:44] >> Right. [00:03:44 - 00:03:45] So now this person is living full time. [00:03:45 - 00:03:46] >> This person is living as a woman. [00:03:46 - 00:03:47] Right. [00:03:47 - 00:03:49] I'm writing to let you know that I begin my first full time job in the field that I'm [00:03:49 - 00:03:52] trained in as the person that I choose to be. [00:03:52 - 00:03:53] That's pretty cool. [00:03:53 - 00:03:57] A small step for some perhaps, but for me the continuance of a momentous journey that [00:03:57 - 00:03:59] I've been so lucky to have participated in. [00:03:59 - 00:04:04] Needless to say, I have so much hope and joy to share with my experience that I can't contain [00:04:04 - 00:04:05] myself. [00:04:05 - 00:04:06] I just wanted to thank you guys for your part. [00:04:06 - 00:04:07] Love, Susan Garinger. [00:04:07 - 00:04:08] >> Oh. [00:04:08 - 00:04:09] >> Isn't that sweet? [00:04:09 - 00:04:10] >> Thank you, Susan. [00:04:10 - 00:04:11] >> Yeah. [00:04:11 - 00:04:12] Thanks, Susan. [00:04:12 - 00:04:13] >> We're glad to hear that you got a job. [00:04:13 - 00:04:14] >> Yeah. [00:04:14 - 00:04:15] Yeah, exactly. [00:04:15 - 00:04:16] A job in her chosen, in her field, in her regular field. [00:04:16 - 00:04:17] >> Yeah. [00:04:17 - 00:04:18] >> She didn't have to like go flip burgers at McDonald's or something. [00:04:18 - 00:04:21] >> No, is she out at this job or we don't know? [00:04:21 - 00:04:22] >> I don't know. [00:04:22 - 00:04:23] >> I don't think it's at this job. [00:04:23 - 00:04:24] >> She didn't say one way or the other. [00:04:24 - 00:04:25] >> Okay. [00:04:25 - 00:04:26] >> You know, who cares? [00:04:26 - 00:04:27] Anyway, congratulations, Susan. [00:04:27 - 00:04:28] >> Right. [00:04:28 - 00:04:32] >> We also got a letter from an email from someone here in Cambridge. [00:04:32 - 00:04:39] Apparently, there's a Cambridge transgender person, a male to female transgender person [00:04:39 - 00:04:43] who transitioned on the job with the consent of her supervisor. [00:04:43 - 00:04:48] A month after her transition, the supervisor resigned to move to another company. [00:04:48 - 00:04:52] Two days later, she was told she would be fired if she did not go back to wearing men's [00:04:52 - 00:04:54] clothing at work. [00:04:54 - 00:04:58] She filed a complaint with the Cambridge Human Rights Commission. [00:04:58 - 00:05:01] >> Now, we have laws against that in Cambridge, don't we? [00:05:01 - 00:05:02] >> Exactly. [00:05:02 - 00:05:05] There's a non-discrimination ordinance that says you can't be discriminated against on [00:05:05 - 00:05:09] the basis of gender expression or identity. [00:05:09 - 00:05:13] So she cannot be--I mean, in law, it says that you can't be forced to wear men's or women's [00:05:13 - 00:05:14] clothes. [00:05:14 - 00:05:16] You get to choose which you wear. [00:05:16 - 00:05:20] Anyway, apparently, it says here finally two months after transitioning, the employee is [00:05:20 - 00:05:22] still on the job. [00:05:22 - 00:05:26] The Human Rights Commission has set a hearing date and the company continues to hold fast [00:05:26 - 00:05:28] to their threat of firing the employee. [00:05:28 - 00:05:30] >> Is this the first test case that's been brought? [00:05:30 - 00:05:31] >> I believe so. [00:05:31 - 00:05:32] This is the first I've heard. [00:05:32 - 00:05:34] We'll be looking forward to getting more information on this. [00:05:34 - 00:05:35] We'll try to get an interview going. [00:05:35 - 00:05:37] >> Is this a private company or is this the city of Cambridge? [00:05:37 - 00:05:38] >> I have no idea. [00:05:38 - 00:05:40] No, I don't think it's the city. [00:05:40 - 00:05:41] >> The city of Cambridge has better sense than that. [00:05:41 - 00:05:43] >> Yeah, the city is much more reasonable. [00:05:43 - 00:05:44] >> To break their own laws, yes. [00:05:44 - 00:05:46] >> All right, so one more mail. [00:05:46 - 00:05:51] >> And finally, we got one letter, a very--a much longer letter, very nicely written. [00:05:51 - 00:05:55] And this is all about the interview that we did last week with the executive director [00:05:55 - 00:05:58] of NORMA, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. [00:05:58 - 00:05:59] Slow down? [00:05:59 - 00:06:00] >> Yeah. [00:06:00 - 00:06:01] >> And he says slow down. [00:06:02 - 00:06:04] I just want to cover a lot of ground real quick. [00:06:04 - 00:06:06] >> We were supportive of him and-- [00:06:06 - 00:06:10] >> Yeah, in fact, it says here, "You seem to be in total agreement with this guest on all [00:06:10 - 00:06:11] his stated points." [00:06:11 - 00:06:15] Actually, I thought he was--he maybe exaggerated a little bit. [00:06:15 - 00:06:17] Like he didn't say anything negative at all. [00:06:17 - 00:06:21] And of course, there's always negatives to anything. [00:06:21 - 00:06:24] So perhaps we could have been a little bit more balanced. [00:06:24 - 00:06:28] This person says, "I do agree that our government's policies on medical usage of marijuana are [00:06:28 - 00:06:29] ill-advised." [00:06:29 - 00:06:37] So in other words, he's saying that the extreme prohibitions are not a good idea. [00:06:37 - 00:06:41] And this person also says, "I also do believe that drug education is essential, but in my [00:06:41 - 00:06:45] experience, marijuana can be an insidiously dangerous drug." [00:06:45 - 00:06:48] Is it he or she? [00:06:48 - 00:06:49] It's a she, I think. [00:06:49 - 00:06:53] She goes on to say, "While I know that this is not the case for everyone that uses marijuana, [00:06:53 - 00:06:56] it has proven true for me and many in my acquaintance. [00:06:56 - 00:07:00] I used drugs, if you count alcohol, for a total of 15 years. [00:07:00 - 00:07:03] For 13 of these years, I used marijuana. [00:07:03 - 00:07:07] During many of those years, it was my drug of choice and I used it daily. [00:07:07 - 00:07:11] I had many enjoyable experiences using marijuana, especially at first. [00:07:11 - 00:07:14] However, I paid a huge price in the long run. [00:07:14 - 00:07:18] I experienced many of the difficulties that your guest dismissed as nonexistent, including [00:07:18 - 00:07:21] paranoia and loss of motivation. [00:07:21 - 00:07:25] I also experienced a level of emotional dependence on marijuana that was no different than that [00:07:25 - 00:07:31] experienced when using other classes of addictive drugs." [00:07:31 - 00:07:34] She goes on to say, "Using marijuana itself did not cause me to use other drugs, but being [00:07:34 - 00:07:39] in the company of other drug users, being high on pot, and having my judgment affected [00:07:39 - 00:07:43] by such a situation definitely encouraged me to use other drugs." [00:07:43 - 00:07:46] I think this is a great letter because I think there are dangers in everything. [00:07:46 - 00:07:48] I think she's putting them out there very well. [00:07:48 - 00:07:49] Yeah, yeah. [00:07:49 - 00:07:50] Very excellent. [00:07:50 - 00:07:51] She's done a really nice job. [00:07:51 - 00:07:55] I wish we had time to read the whole thing because it really is a very, very nice letter. [00:07:55 - 00:07:56] Let's see. [00:07:56 - 00:07:57] There are a couple more. [00:07:57 - 00:08:02] She goes on to say, "I believe that marijuana greatly retarded my emotional and social development. [00:08:02 - 00:08:05] It helped me to withdraw from the world." [00:08:05 - 00:08:07] She goes on to talk about trans people. [00:08:07 - 00:08:09] No, is this a trans person who's writing this? [00:08:09 - 00:08:10] This is a trans person. [00:08:10 - 00:08:15] "For me, it seemed easier and felt safer to stay stoned than to deal with my feelings [00:08:15 - 00:08:16] about myself. [00:08:16 - 00:08:20] I'm sure I'm not the only one who has felt this way." [00:08:20 - 00:08:21] She talks later about getting clean. [00:08:21 - 00:08:26] "Prior to my getting clean, I lived in a lonely, isolated, drug clouded half-life where a significant [00:08:26 - 00:08:30] portion of my energy went into obtaining and using drugs. [00:08:30 - 00:08:33] If you'd told me back then that I had a problem with drugs, I would have denied it totally." [00:08:33 - 00:08:39] This is really interesting because this really speaks to the issue of how do you use drugs? [00:08:39 - 00:08:43] I know that when I smoke, it's for a specific purpose and that if I find myself ... [00:08:43 - 00:08:44] What purpose is it? [00:08:44 - 00:08:46] I mean, is it one that you can ... [00:08:46 - 00:08:51] The first purpose that really came to me was when I was recovering from my motorcycle accident. [00:08:51 - 00:08:52] You had a very serious motorcycle accident. [00:08:52 - 00:08:55] My leg was mangled. [00:08:55 - 00:08:59] It seemed only when I got high that I would relax enough and take the time enough and [00:08:59 - 00:09:04] pay enough attention to my leg to give it the kind of care it really needed. [00:09:04 - 00:09:08] It worked for me to get high and then to work on my leg with massage and exercise and those [00:09:08 - 00:09:09] sorts of things. [00:09:09 - 00:09:10] That really worked for me. [00:09:10 - 00:09:12] That was about 20 years ago? [00:09:12 - 00:09:17] Yeah, 1981, so 17 years, something like that. [00:09:17 - 00:09:21] There are certain types of activities, physical activities, physical exercise sometimes. [00:09:21 - 00:09:24] I like to get high before going rollerblading. [00:09:24 - 00:09:25] It loosens me up. [00:09:25 - 00:09:26] It relaxes me a little bit. [00:09:26 - 00:09:27] I find that I fall less. [00:09:27 - 00:09:31] I mean, I just compared it for a while for a period of some months. [00:09:31 - 00:09:34] When I went out, I alternated between smoking and not smoking to see. [00:09:34 - 00:09:36] I found that I fell significantly more. [00:09:36 - 00:09:38] Maybe just because you're more relaxed or something. [00:09:38 - 00:09:43] Yeah, more relaxed, less concerned with other things, more kind of present in some ways. [00:09:43 - 00:09:48] But at the same time, sometimes I find myself wanting to turn to marijuana because I'm feeling [00:09:48 - 00:09:49] bad. [00:09:49 - 00:09:50] I want to escape. [00:09:50 - 00:09:52] I don't want to deal with things at all. [00:09:52 - 00:09:53] Those are warning signs. [00:09:53 - 00:09:54] Those are reasons not to smoke. [00:09:54 - 00:09:56] Those are reasons not to do drugs. [00:09:56 - 00:09:59] Then when you feel that way, what do you do? [00:09:59 - 00:10:00] I find something else to do. [00:10:00 - 00:10:06] Take a nap, drink a glass of water, go for a walk, do something else, but don't smoke. [00:10:06 - 00:10:09] Not a good time to smoke. [00:10:09 - 00:10:13] If you start to depend on it as an escape, then it becomes a downward spiral, which is [00:10:13 - 00:10:17] what this person is talking about. [00:10:17 - 00:10:19] And she goes on to talk about the community. [00:10:19 - 00:10:22] While there are other issues dividing the community, it appeared, she's talking about [00:10:22 - 00:10:25] in the past, that drug abuse and addiction were causing problems for many of us. [00:10:25 - 00:10:26] And this is true. [00:10:26 - 00:10:27] There's a lot of- [00:10:27 - 00:10:28] Within the trans community? [00:10:28 - 00:10:33] Yeah, there's a lot of recovering alcoholics and there's a lot of people who have abused [00:10:33 - 00:10:34] drugs. [00:10:34 - 00:10:39] The use of drugs steals our energy, saps our spirit, and weakens our voice. [00:10:39 - 00:10:41] And this is signed Bobby. [00:10:41 - 00:10:43] Bobby, I couldn't agree more. [00:10:43 - 00:10:44] This is an excellent letter. [00:10:44 - 00:10:48] It points out the other side of things. [00:10:48 - 00:10:52] Some of the dangers of dealing with drugs, which are dangerous. [00:10:52 - 00:10:56] I mean, anything that you eat can be dangerous, just like getting in a car and driving is [00:10:56 - 00:10:57] a dangerous thing. [00:10:57 - 00:11:01] It kills a lot more people than marijuana ever has. [00:11:01 - 00:11:05] Likewise, marijuana is something that should be used with respect and should be used with [00:11:05 - 00:11:06] a little bit of care. [00:11:06 - 00:11:07] In a well-informed manner. [00:11:07 - 00:11:08] And in a well-informed way. [00:11:08 - 00:11:11] So anyway, Bobby, thank you so much for this excellent letter. [00:11:11 - 00:11:17] We really appreciate you pointing out some of the cautions that people should take whenever [00:11:17 - 00:11:18] dealing with this stuff. [00:11:18 - 00:11:19] And we can talk about this with our guest tonight. [00:11:19 - 00:11:23] Yeah, and we'll be-yeah, when we talk about hallucinogens later tonight. [00:11:23 - 00:11:24] So I'm looking forward to that. [00:11:24 - 00:11:26] Anyway, isn't that a great letter? [00:11:26 - 00:11:27] Yeah. [00:11:27 - 00:11:28] Yeah, anyway. [00:11:28 - 00:11:29] Okay. [00:11:29 - 00:11:30] How? [00:11:30 - 00:11:32] Are you ready to do the Twisted Nasty thing? [00:11:32 - 00:11:33] Yeah. [00:11:33 - 00:11:34] I think he's always ready. [00:11:34 - 00:11:35] Good evening. [00:11:35 - 00:11:44] This is Hal Fuller with the July the 15th edition of the Gender Talk Twisted Nasty News. [00:11:44 - 00:11:45] From Buenos Aires. [00:11:45 - 00:11:47] I did that already. [00:11:47 - 00:11:52] City authorities in Buenos Aires have decided to crack down on prostitution despite protests [00:11:52 - 00:11:55] by a crowd of transvestites in high heels and lipsticks. [00:11:55 - 00:11:56] Was that all they were wearing? [00:11:56 - 00:12:00] That's what the article said. [00:12:00 - 00:12:06] We're simply fighting to be free like any man, woman, or creature, said Flavia, 23-year-old [00:12:06 - 00:12:08] transvestite prostitute. [00:12:08 - 00:12:13] A surge of prostitutes has embarrassed shock presidential contender Fernando de la Rua, [00:12:13 - 00:12:16] mayor of Buenos Aires. [00:12:16 - 00:12:20] Resident groups have lobbied to keep transvestite prostitutes off their doorsteps where they [00:12:20 - 00:12:26] quote fight, shout, relieve themselves, take drugs, and perform sexual acts in full view [00:12:26 - 00:12:27] of the neighborhood. [00:12:27 - 00:12:31] Hell, in my neighborhood, those are spectator sports. [00:12:31 - 00:12:33] Well good thing that they're organized and not they're protesting. [00:12:33 - 00:12:34] Yeah, this is interesting. [00:12:34 - 00:12:42] They repealed the police edicts and now what's happening is the trans prostitution is flourishing [00:12:42 - 00:12:43] apparently. [00:12:43 - 00:12:44] Things have gotten more visible. [00:12:44 - 00:12:47] And now they're trying to reinforce it again. [00:12:47 - 00:12:48] Yeah. [00:12:48 - 00:12:49] Selectively it sounds. [00:12:49 - 00:12:51] Yeah, from the thrust of that article. [00:12:51 - 00:12:52] That's sort of what I got. [00:12:52 - 00:12:54] That was from Reuters I believe. [00:12:54 - 00:13:02] Time Magazine, the July the 20th edition on the newsstands as we speak, has a two page [00:13:02 - 00:13:06] wonderful spread on transgenderism. [00:13:06 - 00:13:08] It starts out, "Watch out Pat Robertson. [00:13:08 - 00:13:14] Ridiculed for years, transgender are emerging as the newest group to demand equality." [00:13:14 - 00:13:18] In the past five years several movies, plays, tablet shows, and famous cross-dressers like [00:13:18 - 00:13:23] RuPaul have moved drag from the fringes of gay culture to prime time. [00:13:23 - 00:13:29] In Teletubbies, a show for toddlers features Tinky Winky, a boy who carries a red patent [00:13:29 - 00:13:30] leather purse. [00:13:30 - 00:13:37] It also features a nice picture and some stuff about Shannon Ware, who is a male to female [00:13:37 - 00:13:43] transsexual approach legislators who dropped anti-T legislation that they were contemplating. [00:13:43 - 00:13:44] And Shannon Mentor who is... [00:13:44 - 00:13:46] I think it's the same person isn't it? [00:13:46 - 00:13:47] No, two different people. [00:13:47 - 00:13:48] No. [00:13:48 - 00:13:49] Is that really? [00:13:49 - 00:13:50] Oh, okay. [00:13:50 - 00:13:51] There's a Shannon Ware. [00:13:51 - 00:13:52] I thought Shannon Mentor... [00:13:52 - 00:13:55] Who is at the National Center for Lesbian Rights. [00:13:55 - 00:13:56] He's a lawyer. [00:13:56 - 00:13:57] He's a lawyer. [00:13:57 - 00:13:58] Right. [00:13:58 - 00:13:59] Okay. [00:13:59 - 00:14:02] The article is very balanced, very knowledgeable, and very hip. [00:14:02 - 00:14:03] They knew what they were talking about. [00:14:03 - 00:14:06] Yeah, and Ricky and Wilchins was involved in that. [00:14:06 - 00:14:09] My guess is that Ricky and the two Shannons probably worked with timing on that. [00:14:09 - 00:14:10] Well, thank you, time. [00:14:10 - 00:14:11] Good work guys. [00:14:11 - 00:14:12] Good work Ricky. [00:14:12 - 00:14:14] It is on the newsstand now. [00:14:14 - 00:14:16] That's gender packet work there too. [00:14:16 - 00:14:17] Right. [00:14:17 - 00:14:20] Of course for the people out on the web it probably won't be on the newsstands by the [00:14:20 - 00:14:22] time you hear it, but you can go to your library and look it up. [00:14:22 - 00:14:23] Anyway. [00:14:23 - 00:14:24] Thank you. [00:14:24 - 00:14:26] Let's do a really twisted nasty one. [00:14:26 - 00:14:32] For instance, in Europe, condoms are getting larger. [00:14:32 - 00:14:36] The European Union Standardization Committee has reportedly decided to increase the length [00:14:36 - 00:14:43] of its standard "condom" from 16 centimeters, approximately 6.3 inches, to 17 centimeters, [00:14:43 - 00:14:45] 6.7 inches. [00:14:45 - 00:14:50] They're also increasing the diameter, the diameter, diameter of the condoms from 54 [00:14:50 - 00:14:52] millimeters to 56 millimeters. [00:14:52 - 00:14:58] Whether this represents a surprise rise among European men is still unclear, it said. [00:14:58 - 00:15:01] Isn't that pretty long? [00:15:01 - 00:15:03] They're only increasing it a little, actually. [00:15:03 - 00:15:05] 0.4 inches in length. [00:15:05 - 00:15:07] Six inches sounds long in my experience. [00:15:07 - 00:15:08] Does it really? [00:15:08 - 00:15:09] Yeah, it does. [00:15:09 - 00:15:10] Not in mine. [00:15:10 - 00:15:14] Well, we should compare notes sometime when we're not on the radio station. [00:15:14 - 00:15:16] Must be a little bit by agro. [00:15:16 - 00:15:17] Yeah, there you go. [00:15:17 - 00:15:18] Oh, maybe this is right. [00:15:18 - 00:15:19] Maybe it's... [00:15:19 - 00:15:20] There you go. [00:15:20 - 00:15:24] I'm not going to touch that. [00:15:24 - 00:15:31] Okay, on a serious note, last week, trans activist Joanna McNamara took her own life. [00:15:31 - 00:15:35] She was an attorney who co-founded It's Time Oregon and was instrumental in gaining protection [00:15:35 - 00:15:38] for transsexuals in Oregon disability laws. [00:15:38 - 00:15:42] She's recently suffered from depression and the after effects of earlier physical injuries. [00:15:42 - 00:15:44] Quote, "I have run out of hope. [00:15:44 - 00:15:46] I am tired of hurting physically and emotionally. [00:15:46 - 00:15:48] I have fought and struggled to the best of my ability. [00:15:48 - 00:15:52] I can struggle no more." [00:15:52 - 00:15:58] Reports have shown that queer youth, gay and lesbian youth, and no specific statistics [00:15:58 - 00:16:04] on transgender, but that queer youth in general are three times more likely to suicide. [00:16:04 - 00:16:10] How many friends in the transgender community do you know that have tried or succeeded at [00:16:10 - 00:16:11] suicide? [00:16:11 - 00:16:12] Maybe yourself. [00:16:12 - 00:16:13] This is obviously a health issue. [00:16:13 - 00:16:15] It's obviously a rights issue. [00:16:15 - 00:16:17] It has to be paid attention to. [00:16:17 - 00:16:20] Our condolences to the friends and family. [00:16:20 - 00:16:21] Yes. [00:16:21 - 00:16:22] Okay. [00:16:22 - 00:16:27] Here's some good news. [00:16:27 - 00:16:36] Our friend, sexuality doyen and grand opening owner Kim Ayers has a new position. [00:16:36 - 00:16:39] Wait a minute. [00:16:39 - 00:16:40] She already had 54. [00:16:40 - 00:16:41] She needed a new position. [00:16:41 - 00:16:42] I know. [00:16:42 - 00:16:48] She has been named apparently to the Brookline Chamber of Commerce. [00:16:48 - 00:16:49] Wow. [00:16:49 - 00:16:50] I love it. [00:16:50 - 00:16:51] I love it. [00:16:51 - 00:16:52] That's pretty heavy. [00:16:52 - 00:16:53] That's great. [00:16:53 - 00:16:54] Congratulations, Kim. [00:16:54 - 00:16:58] And for those people out on the net, Kim Ayers runs a shop called Grand Opening, which is [00:16:58 - 00:17:00] an adult toy store. [00:17:00 - 00:17:04] She also runs many very sex positive workshops and identity workshops. [00:17:04 - 00:17:08] She is one heavy knowledgeable babe. [00:17:08 - 00:17:09] And she's transpositive. [00:17:09 - 00:17:11] They have parking penises in their store. [00:17:11 - 00:17:12] Oh yeah. [00:17:12 - 00:17:13] Well, they do. [00:17:13 - 00:17:14] It's great stuff. [00:17:14 - 00:17:20] And on that note, the Improper Bostonian run a 100 best. [00:17:20 - 00:17:23] And for S&M supplies, the first one they list is Home Depot. [00:17:23 - 00:17:26] Thank you, Karen, for bringing that to my attention. [00:17:26 - 00:17:27] For S&M supplies. [00:17:27 - 00:17:31] Well, you know, the bolts and the stuff you need for the rafters and all of that stuff. [00:17:31 - 00:17:34] And after that they listed Hubba Hubba, which is a local- [00:17:34 - 00:17:35] In Cambridge. [00:17:35 - 00:17:36] In Cambridge shop. [00:17:36 - 00:17:40] So right after you go to Home Depot, folks, swing by Hubba Hubba, please. [00:17:40 - 00:17:43] Oh, I don't. [00:17:43 - 00:17:51] In a Canada case where a young male child lost his penis due to a circumcision accident. [00:17:51 - 00:17:59] He was reassigned as a female, raised as a woman, and apparently accepted it more unlike [00:17:59 - 00:18:01] the famous John John case. [00:18:01 - 00:18:05] And there was a case recently which was brought to attention where- [00:18:05 - 00:18:09] The John John case where the person, there was a similar incident. [00:18:09 - 00:18:14] The person was raised as a girl and at age 12 rebelled and insisted on going back to [00:18:14 - 00:18:15] living as a boy. [00:18:15 - 00:18:16] Well, in this particular- [00:18:16 - 00:18:17] And very upset. [00:18:17 - 00:18:21] In this particular case, the young female apparently is accepting more that she is a [00:18:21 - 00:18:27] female and they're trying to make the distinction that the one who accepted their reassignment [00:18:27 - 00:18:32] was done at seven months and the one who didn't accept their reassignment was done at 21 months. [00:18:32 - 00:18:36] So apparently there is a window where gender hasn't set in hearts. [00:18:36 - 00:18:37] All right. [00:18:37 - 00:18:39] I got to make a few comments on this one. [00:18:39 - 00:18:40] I figured you would. [00:18:40 - 00:18:41] This gets my goat. [00:18:41 - 00:18:47] First of all, first of all, how do you know this wasn't a trans person to start with? [00:18:47 - 00:18:50] This could have been a transgender person anyway. [00:18:50 - 00:18:55] You cannot draw any, any conclusion whatsoever from one case like this. [00:18:55 - 00:19:01] It's absolutely bonkers and any person who calls himself a scientist will tell you that [00:19:01 - 00:19:05] a sample of one or a sample population of two with one going each way- [00:19:05 - 00:19:07] It's not sufficient data points honey. [00:19:07 - 00:19:09] Yeah, not even close. [00:19:09 - 00:19:14] So whichever guy, whoever it was, some guy out there who said, you know, well, since [00:19:14 - 00:19:20] this one was seven months and the other was 21 means that the gender identity takes hold [00:19:20 - 00:19:22] in between those two is a complete loony. [00:19:22 - 00:19:23] I'm sorry. [00:19:23 - 00:19:24] I'm usually more- [00:19:24 - 00:19:26] He didn't go to MIT like we did. [00:19:26 - 00:19:29] Well, yeah, just totally bogus. [00:19:29 - 00:19:30] Totally bogus. [00:19:30 - 00:19:32] God, I love it when she's on her soapbox. [00:19:32 - 00:19:33] I know. [00:19:33 - 00:19:37] Well, we don't even know what it means that this child allegedly accepts that she's a [00:19:37 - 00:19:38] girl. [00:19:38 - 00:19:39] Accepts the gender. [00:19:39 - 00:19:40] But how old is she and what does that mean? [00:19:40 - 00:19:41] I don't have that information. [00:19:41 - 00:19:42] I'm sorry. [00:19:42 - 00:19:45] Tell you what, if you know, drop us an email and let us know. [00:19:45 - 00:19:49] There is one thing that this particular female who has accepted her lot does in fact work [00:19:49 - 00:19:52] a blue collar quote unquote man's job. [00:19:52 - 00:19:59] She was very much a tomboy when she was growing up and at last count she was declaring herself [00:19:59 - 00:20:01] as bi and involved in a lesbian relationship. [00:20:01 - 00:20:06] So tending towards a little bit of masculinity stuff going on there, no surprise. [00:20:06 - 00:20:11] But the question I have to ask is why is it we feel a need to make pronouncements about [00:20:11 - 00:20:14] gender and when gender identity takes hold? [00:20:14 - 00:20:18] You know, I would investigate the motives of the people who feel a need to do so. [00:20:18 - 00:20:21] Once you get a doctorate you are qualified thereby to make pronouncements. [00:20:21 - 00:20:22] Yeah. [00:20:22 - 00:20:28] Okay, here's the moment you've all been waiting for, the final story from New York City. [00:20:28 - 00:20:31] Wealthy thrill-seeking couples from around the world are eagerly lining up to join what [00:20:31 - 00:20:40] they call, jokingly call, the Thousand Mile High Club by renting queues to make love in [00:20:40 - 00:20:42] outer space. [00:20:42 - 00:20:46] And a New York company is selling bursts aboard the privately owned Love Rocket One for a [00:20:46 - 00:20:51] whopping $200,000 a piece and there's already a huge waiting list for the proposed first [00:20:51 - 00:20:55] launch of December the 31st, 2003. [00:20:55 - 00:20:56] Right. [00:20:56 - 00:20:58] This is a very good scam. [00:20:58 - 00:21:01] We should get in on this. [00:21:01 - 00:21:05] You may be right about that, AJ. [00:21:05 - 00:21:08] So save your pennies, folks. [00:21:08 - 00:21:09] That's one expensive roll in the hay. [00:21:09 - 00:21:15] Well, there's also a woman who has developed a harness for free fall lovemaking. [00:21:15 - 00:21:16] Free fall lovemaking? [00:21:16 - 00:21:17] Free fall lovemaking. [00:21:17 - 00:21:18] Like bungee jumping? [00:21:18 - 00:21:22] They're a problem with docking maneuvers apparently. [00:21:22 - 00:21:30] You just wrap your legs around each other's legs and you're there. [00:21:30 - 00:21:32] The hardware is coming in place, dear. [00:21:32 - 00:21:35] That's all I can say and that's it for this edition of the Gender Talk Twisted Nasty News. [00:21:35 - 00:21:37] Views only as directed. [00:21:37 - 00:21:38] Thank you. [00:21:38 - 00:21:39] Thank goodness for that. [00:21:39 - 00:21:40] Don't we have a guest? [00:21:40 - 00:21:41] The guest is probably hung up by now. [00:21:41 - 00:21:42] I think our poor guest is the only one on the line. [00:21:42 - 00:21:43] If I were the guest, I would hang up. [00:21:43 - 00:21:44] I would. [00:21:44 - 00:21:45] Metaoui, are you there? [00:21:45 - 00:21:46] Can you hear us? [00:21:46 - 00:21:47] I am. [00:21:47 - 00:21:54] I'm still thinking about these people in New York paying good money to make love in outer [00:21:54 - 00:21:55] space. [00:21:55 - 00:21:56] I don't blame you. [00:21:56 - 00:21:57] That's, you know, $200,000. [00:21:57 - 00:21:59] Imagine what we could do with that money, huh? [00:21:59 - 00:22:01] If we just got five people, we'd have a million dollars. [00:22:01 - 00:22:03] There you go. [00:22:03 - 00:22:05] So welcome to Gender Talk. [00:22:05 - 00:22:06] Thank you, Nancy. [00:22:06 - 00:22:07] It's a pleasure to have you on. [00:22:07 - 00:22:14] Now, you are a member of the, in fact, you're one of the two people who's running. [00:22:14 - 00:22:15] Tell me. [00:22:15 - 00:22:16] What do you do? [00:22:16 - 00:22:20] My name is Metaoui and I'm co-leader of United American Indians of New England. [00:22:20 - 00:22:21] Oh, okay. [00:22:21 - 00:22:24] And what, tell me, what is United American Indians of New England? [00:22:24 - 00:22:25] Sure. [00:22:25 - 00:22:30] The organization has been in existence since 1970 and we work with a number of different [00:22:30 - 00:22:34] fronts to defend the rights of Native people. [00:22:34 - 00:22:41] For instance, we're responsible since 1970 for the day of, National Day of Mourning commemoration [00:22:41 - 00:22:43] in Plymouth, Massachusetts. [00:22:43 - 00:22:44] National Day of Mourning? [00:22:44 - 00:22:45] Yep. [00:22:45 - 00:22:47] Now that is Thanksgiving? [00:22:47 - 00:22:48] That's Thanksgiving. [00:22:48 - 00:22:51] We, I wanted to tell you, by the way, we do work on a lot of other things. [00:22:51 - 00:22:56] We work on the case of Native political prisoners, including Leonard Paltier. [00:22:56 - 00:23:03] We work to try to demand an end to racist team names and mascots. [00:23:03 - 00:23:07] We work on a lot of other fronts too, but I think what we're best known for is National [00:23:07 - 00:23:08] Day of Mourning. [00:23:08 - 00:23:17] That is, that occurs on American Thanksgiving Day and it's a time when we as Native people [00:23:17 - 00:23:24] and our supporters go to Plymouth, Massachusetts and we're on a hill there overlooking the [00:23:24 - 00:23:31] sacred Plymouth Rock, which for those of you who've never been there is really, I don't [00:23:31 - 00:23:35] know, I think most people think it's this huge thing like the Rock of Gibraltar and [00:23:35 - 00:23:36] it's this little tiny thing. [00:23:36 - 00:23:38] And in fact, the pilgrims didn't land there anyway. [00:23:38 - 00:23:40] It was about six feet long, I think. [00:23:40 - 00:23:42] Center of town that they dragged down to the waterfront. [00:23:42 - 00:23:43] Right. [00:23:43 - 00:23:46] But it's symbolic. [00:23:46 - 00:23:51] And how to speak out and what we talk about is why we as Native Americans have no reason [00:23:51 - 00:23:55] to give thanks for the European invasion of our country. [00:23:55 - 00:23:59] Why we have no reason to give thanks for the genocide of our people and the deaths of our [00:23:59 - 00:24:00] lands. [00:24:00 - 00:24:06] You're not thankful for the massacre of your ancestors and your forebears? [00:24:06 - 00:24:08] Of course we're not. [00:24:08 - 00:24:09] It should be self-evident. [00:24:09 - 00:24:11] Can't understand that one. [00:24:11 - 00:24:13] It's outrageous. [00:24:13 - 00:24:18] See, they have this whole pilgrim mythology that the pilgrims came over and they were [00:24:18 - 00:24:24] such wonderful people and the Indians welcomed them and fed them and everybody lived happily [00:24:24 - 00:24:25] ever after. [00:24:25 - 00:24:30] And that's, it couldn't be further from the truth about what really happened historically [00:24:30 - 00:24:34] and in particular what has happened to indigenous people. [00:24:34 - 00:24:37] So we go there to speak the truth. [00:24:37 - 00:24:42] And we also have several times we've buried Plymouth Rock. [00:24:42 - 00:24:44] You buried the rock? [00:24:44 - 00:24:48] Of the racism that it represents. [00:24:48 - 00:24:49] I love it. [00:24:49 - 00:24:50] What do you mean you buried the rock? [00:24:50 - 00:24:55] Well, you kind of take buckets of, it's in this pit and you kind of jump down into the [00:24:55 - 00:25:00] pit and we brought buckets of sand and dumped buckets of sand and covered it up. [00:25:00 - 00:25:01] How many years have you been doing this? [00:25:01 - 00:25:02] I mean how many years? [00:25:02 - 00:25:03] 1970. [00:25:03 - 00:25:04] Wow. [00:25:04 - 00:25:05] That's terrific. [00:25:05 - 00:25:10] Let me tell people, because this is a gender talk and I want to tell people a little bit [00:25:10 - 00:25:12] why we have you on here. [00:25:12 - 00:25:17] You're inspired by, I mean this interview is inspired by Leslie Feinberg who spoke at [00:25:17 - 00:25:23] Boston's Pride this last Saturday and talked about the Plymouth 25, which is 25 people [00:25:23 - 00:25:27] who I guess were charged at the- [00:25:27 - 00:25:28] And beaten, right? [00:25:28 - 00:25:31] I don't know, but I'm going to ask Motoi to tell us all about this. [00:25:31 - 00:25:36] But 25 people who have been charged, who were apparently assaulted by the police and who [00:25:36 - 00:25:43] have been charged by the police based on last year's National Day of Shame in Plymouth, [00:25:43 - 00:25:44] I believe. [00:25:44 - 00:25:55] And because Leslie and myself and other transgender activists are advocating for coalitional work [00:25:55 - 00:26:01] with among all oppressed peoples, we here at Gender Talk feel that it's important to [00:26:01 - 00:26:08] bring other issues to light, especially issues that are so egregious as the continuing persecution [00:26:08 - 00:26:11] of the people who lived here before the Europeans came. [00:26:11 - 00:26:13] As if we could separate race and gender anyway. [00:26:13 - 00:26:14] Yeah, exactly. [00:26:14 - 00:26:15] You know. [00:26:15 - 00:26:18] So Motoi, can you tell us about what happened in Plymouth? [00:26:18 - 00:26:19] I'd be happy to. [00:26:19 - 00:26:20] Great. [00:26:20 - 00:26:24] Let me say this also, we don't separate the issues out and in fact you probably saw us [00:26:24 - 00:26:25] marching at Boston Pride. [00:26:25 - 00:26:26] All right. [00:26:26 - 00:26:31] We were there in June at the Reigned Out Pride and we're part of the Stonewall March and [00:26:31 - 00:26:37] we were marching with United American Indians of New England banners at Pride that just [00:26:37 - 00:26:41] happened this past Saturday, the Reigned Day. [00:26:41 - 00:26:47] I think sometimes there's this tendency in society to make it seem as though native issues [00:26:47 - 00:26:52] are separate, for instance, from lesbian, gay, bi and trans issues or that type of thing. [00:26:52 - 00:26:53] And that's not true either. [00:26:53 - 00:26:58] I mean, certainly there are lesbian, gay, bi and trans people, what we call two-spirited [00:26:58 - 00:27:00] people who are native. [00:27:00 - 00:27:01] Absolutely. [00:27:01 - 00:27:06] You know, we support the sisters and brothers within our own country, community who are [00:27:06 - 00:27:12] two-spirited people and we support all the people from the two-spirited community. [00:27:12 - 00:27:14] That's why we march in Pride. [00:27:14 - 00:27:21] Four of the defendants from the Plymouth 25 are openly lesbian, gay, bi or trans people. [00:27:21 - 00:27:23] And I think that's important to know. [00:27:23 - 00:27:24] So we have- [00:27:24 - 00:27:25] The Plymouth 25. [00:27:25 - 00:27:28] Yeah, tell us about what happened because we have an audience out here, a lot of trans [00:27:28 - 00:27:32] people and a bunch of other folks are listening, a lot of queer-identified ones. [00:27:32 - 00:27:33] Tell us what happened. [00:27:33 - 00:27:39] Last National Day of Mourning on November 27, 1997, so-called Thanksgiving Day, we went [00:27:39 - 00:27:44] to Plymouth as we've been going, as I said, since 1970. [00:27:44 - 00:27:50] And every year it's led by native people, by our organization, United American Indians [00:27:50 - 00:27:56] in New England, but many, many other non-native people come to show their support for it. [00:27:56 - 00:28:01] And we had a speak out and in the speak out we talked about some of the history and also [00:28:01 - 00:28:06] some issues of current concern to native people. [00:28:06 - 00:28:12] And then we attempted to have a peaceful march on the streets of Plymouth, Massachusetts, [00:28:12 - 00:28:15] which calls itself America's hometown. [00:28:15 - 00:28:20] And this march, at the front of the march, we had elders and we had women and we had [00:28:20 - 00:28:25] children and we did that actually intentionally because we thought, well, you couldn't, how [00:28:25 - 00:28:30] can we make it more clear that we don't want any kind of confrontation? [00:28:30 - 00:28:37] And we began to march and it was very quiet and someone was playing, had a conch shell [00:28:37 - 00:28:40] and there was a drum beating and that was all that you heard. [00:28:40 - 00:28:48] And we turned the corner and we were ambushed by dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cops. [00:28:48 - 00:28:55] The Plymouth, the town of Plymouth, their entire police force beast up and the Plymouth [00:28:55 - 00:29:04] County Sheriff's Department and the Massachusetts State Police, including state cops on horseback, [00:29:04 - 00:29:09] had combined to come up with this whole ambush. [00:29:09 - 00:29:12] And people, we weren't given warning to get off the street. [00:29:12 - 00:29:17] We weren't, we're on this tiny little side street in Plymouth, right? [00:29:17 - 00:29:18] And just got trapped there. [00:29:18 - 00:29:20] We weren't allowed to get off the street. [00:29:20 - 00:29:21] Nobody was allowed to do anything. [00:29:21 - 00:29:27] We sent people ahead to try to talk to the cops and say, listen, try to negotiate with [00:29:27 - 00:29:28] them. [00:29:28 - 00:29:32] The cops said the order's been given and they moved forward. [00:29:32 - 00:29:37] And they began to arrest not only the leadership of our organization, but many, many other [00:29:37 - 00:29:39] people. [00:29:39 - 00:29:43] And they also were very brutal to people. [00:29:43 - 00:29:46] They knocked people down on the pavement head first. [00:29:46 - 00:29:50] They would slam people down on the pavement and then put pepper spray in their eyes. [00:29:50 - 00:29:54] And pepper spray is a very vicious substance. [00:29:54 - 00:29:58] These cops pepper sprayed an eight year old child and a 10 year old child. [00:29:58 - 00:30:00] These cops pepper sprayed elders. [00:30:00 - 00:30:05] They were just, they were like, I'm feeling what they were like, you know, Custer and [00:30:05 - 00:30:06] the cavalry. [00:30:06 - 00:30:10] They were like, you know, they, they thought, oh boy, they were going to be big cowboys [00:30:10 - 00:30:11] today. [00:30:11 - 00:30:12] Yeah. [00:30:12 - 00:30:13] Cause little eight year old kids are really threatening. [00:30:13 - 00:30:15] The worst of white culture. [00:30:15 - 00:30:17] Oh, it was, it was terrible. [00:30:17 - 00:30:22] And you know, people literally were just trying to evaporate and get out of the way and couldn't. [00:30:22 - 00:30:26] And they arrested 25 of us. [00:30:26 - 00:30:31] And those who are arrested, the newspapers locally always say the 25 native Americans [00:30:31 - 00:30:32] arrested at Plymouth. [00:30:32 - 00:30:34] Well, it wasn't 25 native Americans. [00:30:34 - 00:30:42] It was 25 people who included native Americans and African Americans and the native people, [00:30:42 - 00:30:46] by the way, are from both North and South America and African Americans and white people [00:30:46 - 00:30:50] and Latino people and Asian people and old and young. [00:30:50 - 00:30:57] They arrested a 67 year old man who is the spiritual advisor to our organization and [00:30:57 - 00:30:58] medicine person. [00:30:58 - 00:30:59] Wow. [00:30:59 - 00:31:02] It was, were you arrested? [00:31:02 - 00:31:03] Oh yeah. [00:31:03 - 00:31:04] Oh yeah. [00:31:04 - 00:31:05] Wow. [00:31:05 - 00:31:07] And what's so absurd about it? [00:31:07 - 00:31:10] First of all, the only criminals that were on the streets of Plymouth that they were [00:31:10 - 00:31:12] the cops. [00:31:12 - 00:31:14] We certainly weren't doing anything criminal. [00:31:14 - 00:31:17] What did they, what did they charge you with? [00:31:17 - 00:31:19] Well, they've continued to prosecute this case. [00:31:19 - 00:31:23] I mean, it's a ridiculous case and the charges should have been dropped a long time ago, [00:31:23 - 00:31:26] but they're actually playing really hard ball with us. [00:31:26 - 00:31:34] The charges range from unlawful assembly kind of charges to assault and battery on a police [00:31:34 - 00:31:35] officer. [00:31:35 - 00:31:36] And that assault and battery is very serious. [00:31:36 - 00:31:39] I mean, people can potentially do time for that. [00:31:39 - 00:31:40] Oh yeah. [00:31:40 - 00:31:42] Well, you're in Parliament for two years. [00:31:42 - 00:31:47] You know, so instead of dropping these charges and getting realistic about it, they have [00:31:47 - 00:31:53] engaged in a vindictive campaign against not only the 25 defendants, but against our organization, [00:31:53 - 00:31:56] really trying to discredit us. [00:31:56 - 00:32:01] And it's, you know, it's been a very bad situation. [00:32:01 - 00:32:07] On the other hand, we've gotten an incredible broad base of support. [00:32:07 - 00:32:13] We're getting letters of support from organizations and individuals all over the country and in [00:32:13 - 00:32:14] fact all over the world. [00:32:14 - 00:32:15] Good. [00:32:15 - 00:32:17] Sounds like you deserve it. [00:32:17 - 00:32:22] Many people are aware of this and those who aren't, when they become aware of it, they're [00:32:22 - 00:32:25] immediately outraged and want to do something to help. [00:32:25 - 00:32:26] Okay. [00:32:26 - 00:32:27] We have to take a break now. [00:32:27 - 00:32:28] I'll be right back. [00:32:28 - 00:32:29] Okay. [00:32:29 - 00:32:32] For those of you who are wondering what this is, you're listening to Gender Talk on WMBR [00:32:32 - 00:32:34] in Cambridge, 88.1 FM. [00:32:34 - 00:32:35] First on your dial. [00:32:35 - 00:32:37] I'm your host, Nancy Nangioroni, here with A.J. [00:32:37 - 00:32:38] Dirksen. [00:32:38 - 00:32:44] We're talking with Ma Tho Wee, who is the co-head of the United American Indians of [00:32:44 - 00:32:45] New England. [00:32:45 - 00:32:51] We're talking about the Plymouth 25, 25 people who were arrested unjustly in Plymouth last [00:32:51 - 00:32:55] year, Day of Shame, which also celebrated as Thanksgiving by a lot of Americans. [00:32:55 - 00:32:56] Oh, Day of... [00:32:56 - 00:32:57] Morning. [00:32:57 - 00:32:58] No, Day of Shame. [00:32:58 - 00:32:59] Didn't you say Day of Morning? [00:32:59 - 00:33:00] Day of Morning. [00:33:00 - 00:33:01] Oh, you did say Day of Morning. [00:33:01 - 00:33:02] Yeah. [00:33:02 - 00:33:03] I got it wrong. [00:33:03 - 00:33:04] A.J., you were right. [00:33:04 - 00:33:05] Go ahead. [00:33:06 - 00:33:07] What's that? [00:33:07 - 00:33:08] Day of Shame must be a different day. [00:33:08 - 00:33:09] That's Columbus Day. [00:33:09 - 00:33:10] Where did I get... [00:33:10 - 00:33:11] Yeah, there you go. [00:33:11 - 00:33:12] Anyway, okay, so... [00:33:12 - 00:33:13] So now... [00:33:13 - 00:33:17] So, yeah, so what's with these... [00:33:17 - 00:33:19] Okay, what can people do to help? [00:33:19 - 00:33:22] And then let's talk about other things that your organization is doing. [00:33:22 - 00:33:23] Great. [00:33:23 - 00:33:25] Well, people can contact us. [00:33:25 - 00:33:30] Right now we're asking people to send letters of support and to send letters to the Plymouth [00:33:30 - 00:33:34] County District Attorney, Michael Sullivan, demanding that the charges be dropped. [00:33:34 - 00:33:39] If it's okay, I'll give your listeners our phone number and they can contact us. [00:33:39 - 00:33:40] Absolutely. [00:33:40 - 00:33:41] Okay. [00:33:41 - 00:33:42] You can give anything you want. [00:33:42 - 00:33:46] Our phone number is area code 781-331-3690. [00:33:46 - 00:33:49] And we can also be reached via email. [00:33:49 - 00:33:55] Our email address is uaine19@idt.net. [00:33:55 - 00:33:58] I'm doing my best to enunciate that. [00:33:58 - 00:33:59] You did fine with that. [00:33:59 - 00:34:05] That's uaine19, one nine, that is, at idt.net. [00:34:05 - 00:34:07] That's right. [00:34:07 - 00:34:10] Or 781-331-3690. [00:34:10 - 00:34:11] We'll keep that number here. [00:34:11 - 00:34:16] If anybody calls us later at 253-8810, we'll have that information for you. [00:34:16 - 00:34:19] Okay, so people can contact you and what you really want is for people to write letters [00:34:19 - 00:34:23] so they can call you and get the address to write to, to write to Michael Sullivan, the [00:34:23 - 00:34:25] Plymouth District Attorney. [00:34:25 - 00:34:26] Is that what you said? [00:34:26 - 00:34:27] That's right. [00:34:27 - 00:34:28] It's the Plymouth County District Attorney. [00:34:28 - 00:34:30] We'll give both of you that information. [00:34:30 - 00:34:36] We are going to be, all the Plymouth defendants will be back in Wareham District Court on the [00:34:36 - 00:34:40] morning of July 28th at nine o'clock. [00:34:40 - 00:34:43] And every time we've come to court, we've asked that supporters come there. [00:34:43 - 00:34:47] In fact, when we were in court in June, there was about, I think there was about a hundred [00:34:47 - 00:34:49] supporters there and it was really incredible. [00:34:49 - 00:34:50] We just packed the courtroom. [00:34:50 - 00:34:51] That's great. [00:34:51 - 00:34:55] So anyone who's able to come down to Wareham District Court on the 28th, that would be [00:34:55 - 00:34:56] great too. [00:34:56 - 00:34:58] That would be a very effective thing to do to let them know that the public is watching [00:34:58 - 00:35:01] and that they're, we're interested. [00:35:01 - 00:35:05] What else, what else is the United American Indians of New England doing or what's happening [00:35:05 - 00:35:07] maybe on a national basis? [00:35:07 - 00:35:11] If you can just fill us in because we just, we're, we're very sympathetic, especially [00:35:11 - 00:35:12] in the trans community. [00:35:12 - 00:35:20] There's a lot of interest in our two-spirit heritage in a native tradition and, and so [00:35:20 - 00:35:21] we want to know what's going on. [00:35:21 - 00:35:24] So fill us in as much as you can in the next five or ten minutes. [00:35:24 - 00:35:29] So I guess the two things that I'd like to tell you about, we do have tomorrow on the [00:35:29 - 00:35:36] 16th, we're going to be having a, a picket outside Fenway Park here in Boston. [00:35:36 - 00:35:37] Now, why are you picketing Fenway? [00:35:37 - 00:35:42] Well, it's not because the Red Sox keep losing, although that might not be bad either. [00:35:42 - 00:35:48] It's because the Cleveland Indians baseball team is in town and when they come to town, [00:35:48 - 00:35:51] we like to let them know that we're here. [00:35:51 - 00:35:55] We have very good friends in Cleveland, a native organization called the Committee of [00:35:55 - 00:36:00] Five Hundred Years of Dignity and Resistance, who have been protesting in Cleveland for [00:36:00 - 00:36:08] years against the racist team name, the Indians, and against the disgusting, hook-nosed, vile [00:36:08 - 00:36:13] mascot that is everywhere in Cleveland and that is used everywhere by that baseball team, [00:36:13 - 00:36:15] which is called Chief Wahoo. [00:36:15 - 00:36:21] And in fact, the sisters and brothers in Cleveland have been arrested more than once simply for [00:36:21 - 00:36:26] having a demonstration outside Jacob's Field there. [00:36:26 - 00:36:31] We go to Fenway Park to try to raise people's consciousness. [00:36:31 - 00:36:34] We're outside the park and we hand out leaflets, but we try to raise people's consciousness [00:36:34 - 00:36:39] about the issue of these racist mascots and team names. [00:36:39 - 00:36:40] Some people have never even thought about this. [00:36:40 - 00:36:45] Some people, it's never even occurred to them that we would find it offensive for a team [00:36:45 - 00:36:48] to be called, for instance, the Redskins. [00:36:48 - 00:36:49] You know what? [00:36:49 - 00:36:50] It never occurred. [00:36:50 - 00:36:51] I have to admit it. [00:36:51 - 00:36:55] It never occurred to me before I called you guys and heard what was going on. [00:36:55 - 00:36:57] I have to admit it. [00:36:57 - 00:36:58] Yeah. [00:36:58 - 00:36:59] It just never occurred to me. [00:36:59 - 00:37:02] It makes sense though, especially Redskins. [00:37:02 - 00:37:05] Are people generally receptive to you when you're leaving? [00:37:05 - 00:37:07] Could you have a team called the Blackskins? [00:37:07 - 00:37:08] Exactly. [00:37:08 - 00:37:09] That's the whole point. [00:37:09 - 00:37:15] They don't take other racial groupings and name teams and mascots after them. [00:37:15 - 00:37:23] They don't, for instance, have some guy dressed up as a Pope dancing around on a football [00:37:23 - 00:37:26] field handing out communion. [00:37:26 - 00:37:31] They don't do that to other people's spirituality or other people's cultures, but it's somehow [00:37:31 - 00:37:33] supposed to be acceptable to do it to Native people. [00:37:33 - 00:37:41] What's really frustrating is at schools and universities and with these big league sports [00:37:41 - 00:37:47] teams, Native people have been saying over and over again, "Please stop using this name." [00:37:47 - 00:37:50] And we're told, "Well, it's not offensive. [00:37:50 - 00:37:51] You shouldn't be offended. [00:37:51 - 00:37:52] We're not going to stop using it. [00:37:52 - 00:37:53] We're not offended." [00:37:53 - 00:37:56] How can they determine whether it's offensive to us or not? [00:37:56 - 00:37:59] Only we can say whether that's offensive. [00:37:59 - 00:38:03] I wanted to know about how you're received when you hand out leaflets. [00:38:03 - 00:38:07] Well, some people are responsive. [00:38:07 - 00:38:12] There's a number of Cleveland baseball fans that turn out for these games too. [00:38:12 - 00:38:17] They tend to be really hostile. [00:38:17 - 00:38:22] I like baseball a lot myself, but some of the fans can be pretty rednecky and they've [00:38:22 - 00:38:24] had a lot of beers and things like that. [00:38:24 - 00:38:26] So some of them are not very responsive. [00:38:26 - 00:38:28] We've been spat at. [00:38:28 - 00:38:32] We've been told to go back to our casinos. [00:38:32 - 00:38:34] We've had leaflets shoved back in our face, that kind of thing. [00:38:34 - 00:38:36] But other people take them and read them. [00:38:36 - 00:38:40] Hey, speaking of casinos, what's going on with the whole... [00:38:40 - 00:38:41] I can't hear you. [00:38:41 - 00:38:49] Speaking of casinos, what's going on with the sovereignty issues? [00:38:49 - 00:38:51] Is that being tested or is that acknowledged? [00:38:51 - 00:38:52] I know that that was... [00:38:52 - 00:38:53] What issues are those? [00:38:53 - 00:38:54] Sovereignty. [00:38:54 - 00:38:55] Yeah. [00:38:55 - 00:39:03] Sovereignty is being exploited in order to bring in income via the casinos, and that's [00:39:03 - 00:39:05] being done widespread on a national basis now. [00:39:05 - 00:39:10] Are there other issues of sovereignty that are coming forward? [00:39:10 - 00:39:13] Is there other ways that sovereignty is being challenged? [00:39:13 - 00:39:17] Well, our sovereignty is not respected, actually. [00:39:17 - 00:39:22] All Native nations should have a right to have their own economy, however they determine [00:39:22 - 00:39:27] that should be, and to make their own laws and enforce those laws, and to educate their [00:39:27 - 00:39:32] children in their own manner, and to have social service programs that are culturally [00:39:32 - 00:39:36] appropriate, and really to function in separate countries. [00:39:36 - 00:39:39] That's what sovereignty means. [00:39:39 - 00:39:42] It's the right of each Native nation to be able to do that because we were here first [00:39:42 - 00:39:43] and it is our land. [00:39:43 - 00:39:48] We are separate nations with our own land base. [00:39:48 - 00:39:54] The U.S. government has never respected that, though, and interferes in every possible way. [00:39:54 - 00:40:01] So, really, at the bottom of many, many of the Native struggles are efforts to defend [00:40:01 - 00:40:03] sovereignty and efforts to regain land. [00:40:03 - 00:40:06] I have a question about the casinos. [00:40:06 - 00:40:15] Casinos, are they bringing money into Native American Indian hands, and is that money doing [00:40:15 - 00:40:18] good things, or is it a corrupting influence? [00:40:18 - 00:40:24] Well, our organization doesn't take a position on casinos except as follows, which is that [00:40:24 - 00:40:30] we believe it's the right of every Native nation to choose how it wants to conduct its [00:40:30 - 00:40:33] own economy. [00:40:33 - 00:40:40] We will say this, however, which is it's a fact that there's this myth afloat now that [00:40:40 - 00:40:47] Native people are all getting rich with casinos, and in fact, not even five Native nations [00:40:47 - 00:40:51] have made significant earnings from casinos. [00:40:51 - 00:40:57] In general, most Native nations remain incredibly poor, and when you look at reservations around [00:40:57 - 00:41:02] the country, whether you're talking about Pine Ridge or Standing Rock or in Navajo country, [00:41:02 - 00:41:08] really all over the country, Native people are the poorest people in this country. [00:41:08 - 00:41:11] And are the casinos helping in that? [00:41:11 - 00:41:12] Is that changing as a result of the casinos? [00:41:12 - 00:41:20] Well, as I said, the casinos have had an impact on only a very few Native nations. [00:41:20 - 00:41:25] Most Native nations don't have casinos, and even some of the ones that do. [00:41:25 - 00:41:29] I noticed a bunch when I was in New Mexico last month. [00:41:29 - 00:41:33] There were a bunch of casinos on various pueblos. [00:41:33 - 00:41:38] I just like to think it would be nice if the casinos were actually returning some wealth [00:41:38 - 00:41:42] into the hands of Native Americans. [00:41:42 - 00:41:47] I was wondering if Matoni wanted to give out their contact number again. [00:41:47 - 00:41:48] Okay. [00:41:48 - 00:41:50] You want to do that again? [00:41:50 - 00:41:56] Our telephone number is 781-331-3690. [00:41:56 - 00:42:02] We just had a caller from somebody who was of Swedish-Danish that descent and said, "I'm [00:42:02 - 00:42:03] a Viking. [00:42:03 - 00:42:05] It's like they're doing the same thing." [00:42:05 - 00:42:06] Really? [00:42:06 - 00:42:07] Yes. [00:42:07 - 00:42:08] Interesting. [00:42:08 - 00:42:09] Matoni, we're out of time. [00:42:09 - 00:42:10] We have to go now. [00:42:10 - 00:42:12] Is there anything that you wanted to say that you haven't had a chance to say yet? [00:42:12 - 00:42:13] Nope. [00:42:13 - 00:42:18] This is fine, but we really appreciate the opportunity to be on your program and to speak [00:42:18 - 00:42:19] to the trans community. [00:42:19 - 00:42:22] Well, we'll be paying attention to what happens with the Plymouth 25. [00:42:22 - 00:42:25] I'll hope to see you, and I hope to have an opportunity to come down to Plymouth and see [00:42:25 - 00:42:26] you. [00:42:26 - 00:42:28] I'm starting to think about spending my next Thanksgiving day down there, so we'll see [00:42:28 - 00:42:29] what happens. [00:42:29 - 00:42:30] Well, please come. [00:42:31 - 00:42:34] This Thanksgiving day, we invite everyone to come stand with us in Plymouth. [00:42:34 - 00:42:37] Believe me, we're going to be there for the biggest day of mourning ever. [00:42:37 - 00:42:40] Yeah, I think this would be a good year for a bunch of people to turn out. [00:42:40 - 00:42:41] Yep. [00:42:41 - 00:42:42] So, thank you so much, Matoni. [00:42:42 - 00:42:43] Okay, thanks. [00:42:43 - 00:42:45] There's a little tribute before we say goodbye to Matoni. [00:42:45 - 00:42:46] Okay. 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